{"id":470,"date":"2022-06-27T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2022-06-27T06:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/calledtoqueer.com\/?p=470"},"modified":"2022-06-26T13:28:18","modified_gmt":"2022-06-26T19:28:18","slug":"taking-a-break","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/calledtoqueer.com\/index.php\/2022\/06\/27\/taking-a-break\/","title":{"rendered":"Taking a Break"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Kate:<\/strong> We would like to provide a short preface to this episode. We rely on the work of disability advocates and Black and Indigenous creators and advocates who speak about communities of care in this episode. We acknowledge our extensive privilege as white folks with non-visible disabilities in this conversation, and we know our backgrounds keep us from being able to fully acknowledge the ways in which communities of care are vital to the lives of more marginalized communities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We believe that queer communities of care are necessary, but only through the leadership those with intersectional identities. We are grateful for those communities that have educated us on this topic and we will work to continue to educate ourselves on this topic. So let’s get started!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Hello and welcome to Called to Queer, where we hold space for the queer Mormon women, genderqueer and intersex [00:01:00] experiences. I’m Kate and my pronouns are she\/they.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> And I’m Colette and my pronouns are she\/her.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Today we have a topics episode about rest, and we’re really excited to get into that. But before we jump into it, we want to start off by seeing what brought us queer joy this week. So Colette, what brought you queer joy this week?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> I have so much queer joy to share. So we are recording this towards the end of the first week of June. And so June being pride month, there were a lot of pride and queer joy things in my life. First day of pride month, I went and got a rainbow manicure and went to a coming out party that someone threw for themselves, which was super fun.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I know I’m like, why do we not have more coming out parties? It was just lovely, just so much happiness. And people’s just supporting this individual and it was wonderful. And then the next day I participated in a mini [00:02:00] photo shoot with the Every Day Pride project. And we’ll link that in our transcript, if you want to go check it out. An awesome ally decided she wanted to donate her time and talents to taking pictures of doing little mini photo shoots of queer individuals, and then posting those, the photo shoot along with some of their story to help amplify queer voices. So that was neat.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I then went to a lesbian wedding, which was super fun. I didn’t know anyone besides the brides and the person I brought along as a plus one, but it was just so much queer joy of these two wonderful women coming together finally. They’d been together for several years and the engagement they’ve been engaged the whole time. I’ve known them, which has been like a year and three months. And so to finally have this day here was wonderful and there was just so much love and joy and dancing. And then there was a pool party the next day, I think all summer weddings should have pool parties included. That’s what I decided.[00:03:00] Then I went to Pride, the Salt Lake City Pride, the parade and the festival, and I got to run into a bunch of friends and see just so much happiness.And it’s just been really good. So lots and lots of queer joy for me. I need to have more of my weeks like that. That was just so much queer joy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> That is a lot though. You must be exhausted.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> I am a little tired. So it’s funny that we’re going to be talking about rest today. Cause I think I probably need to have this conversation and implement some of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Wow though, I should steal send me your queer joy. it sounds like you have plenty for all of us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Plenty to go around? Yes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> What about you? What’s your queer joy you want to share?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah. I’ve been thinking about this. Cause I was walking down the street and was just like, I love today. And I was like, okay, let me think about my queer joy. And what’s coming up for me because I think it’s [00:04:00] coming from queer joy in a lot of different ways. It was Pride here too in Romania, but not in the capital city Bucharest, but in Iasi I did not go, but it was nice to be able to see and experience, Pride here even digitally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So that was just like a unique experience for me, because I would expect I need to go to pride to feel all of that, but I definitely didn’t feel the need to go to Pride, but I still felt like the shock waves of it. So that was one thing. Seeing pride in Utah at the same time, I think there’s something about all of us celebrating around the world at one time, the same thing, it’s all called Pride. That is really neat. There aren’t very many things that we celebrate globally all together and pride happens to be one of them. So those are some things that I was excited about as I was just like [00:05:00] walking down the street, thinking today’s a good day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> And I also just want to celebrate. You’re just like I liked my life. Life is awesome. Today is great. That is awesome queer joy too, that I think sometimes we forget because we are looking for like specifically queer coded things or whatever, but just enjoying your life, especially knowing how so often so many queer individuals have had a really hard time in their lives. Like I want to celebrate that with you too. So thank you for just sharing that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Ah, thank you. That’s what I felt too. I was like, I don’t know how often I felt just so good to be me. And so often I’m thinking about how I am in the world and who I’m interacting with and to just be, and be happy is new for me. And also very fun and exciting and peaceful<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Love that. So as we get into the topic today Kate and I have been [00:06:00] brainstorming for the last little bit, I’d say probably maybe a month ago, Kate brought up, Hey, I feel like I’m needing a break. I love the podcast. We’re doing awesome stuff, but for those that don’t know, there’s a lot of work that goes into podcasts, which I don’t think I fully appreciated before having my own, because I consume so many podcasts. You don’t think about the work and prep that goes into it. As far as finding interviewees, doing research, doing the editing, doing the transcriptions. Cause we want to make sure we’re accessible having social media and the interactions and things like that. And I was like, yeah, I think I’m getting there too. What if we did an episode talking about our decision to take a rest, take a break, what that means? And I’m actually really excited for this conversation to see where it goes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah, I am too. I’m stoked to see how it develops because I think we both have different ideas coming into it and it’s going to be, it’s going to be cool. [00:07:00]<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> It was funny around the same time we were having this discussion. Bren\u00e9 Brown announced a taking a break<\/a> from her podcasts as well. And so I was like, Ooh, maybe it’s a sign. If Bren\u00e9 Brown can take a break, we can take a break. And so that was really nice. She wrote a nice thing on her social media and I’ll link it if anyone wants to go look at it. And I want to reassure listeners from the beginning, This is not us ending the podcast by any means. This is really just us taking a break. Kate is working on some stuff, a new phase of their dissertation. I’m working on some, hopefully new offerings to help more individuals outside of just therapy and sometimes different areas of life need to take a pause, so the other ones can come more fully forward. And so I’m excited for that for us to focus on other things while knowing we’ll come back to this podcast, we’re excited to continue to have conversations and grow. We love it, and [00:08:00] we have other things in our lives too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah, for sure. And I think it, I love this example from Bren\u00e9 Brown of talking about how rest is important and how thinking through you don’t have to constantly be engaged in the work. Resting is engagement, right? Being able to come back to something a little bit later is also engagement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> I love that. And that’s something I’ve been thinking a little bit about recently. So I recently got COVID for a second time. Thank you recent COVID surge in the U.S. and it was really interesting trying to find that balance, which I’m like is balanced even the right word as far as resting So my body can heal and still wanting to feel like I’m doing things because rest doesn’t feel like doing things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

[00:09:00] And I feel like in a capitalist society, there is you get the gold star for always working, always being tired, always doing something, but rest is necessary when you’re sick. You need rest so your body can heal. And we have been in a constant state of worldwide trauma for over two years. If not longer, I’m thinking primarily with COVID, but the racial reckonings and all the shootings, like there’s so much in the world that is so heavy and we need rest to make sure that we are okay. But I think one thing I’ve been struggling with is the guilt of that of, oh, I’m not supposed to rest. I should be doing more. I should be helping more people. I should be serving. I should be taking on more clients. I should. And that’s not sustainable, but I don’t know exactly what that looks like [00:10:00] when I just have this mindset of it should always be more and rest is not more right.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Where do you think that comes from that guilt?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Whoa, good question. I think. Being raised female is a big part of it. Honestly, it would be my initial gut reaction because I think we’re raised from the time we’re little to always be taking care of others. And then you add in a layer Mormonism, that’s always serve taking care of others. And I’m not saying don’t serve, don’t take care of others, but you’ve got to make sure you’re taking care of yourself too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I use analogies with clients all the time. As far as you can’t draw water from an empty you gotta put on your oxygen mask before you help others, those maybe trite sayings. But I think there is still that guilt of, but I’ve got to make sure everyone else is okay. First. I don’t know if, do you have thoughts about where it comes from? Am I totally off base with being female [00:11:00] and Mormon?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> No, I think those are the answers that I would have too. Not that people who were assigned male at birth or men or non-Mormons don’t have this, but I think that it’s especially cultivated that guilt is especially cultivated within Mormonism and especially with the, in the idea of what, oh, what womanhood and what women should be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There’s an element of self-sacrifice that is constantly being talked about, talked around, not saying You need to self sacrifice, but you need to do this in order for everybody else to be happy, not ever reflecting on what you need, it’s always what everybody else needs. And so if you’re not taking care of everybody else, there’s a sense of guilt that you’re not doing the [00:12:00] duty that you’ve been instructed and fostered to be doing our whole lives. So yeah, I think the answer is both of those things, but I also think it’s also, I also think it’s, there’s an element of capitalism here that you and your body are only allowed to survive in the system if you are producing and giving something back to that society.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I actually, I had a large discussion with one of my brothers recently about, And actually I’ve had this with multiple people, all of whom are Latter-day Saints to say, yes, it, it is a requirement for you to do something in the [00:13:00] society in order to have a house, our home shelter, not even a home shelter and for you to have food and for you to have life and breath.This is something that is, is explicit among Latter-day Saints. That Latter-day Saints have no qualms saying that people only deserve shelter, food, and breath when they are producing something for society.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> And that’s heavy. That’s something I’ve been wrestling with, especially moving from being in salaried positions my whole career until about a year ago. And now I’m only being paid for when I see individuals when I see clients. And so it’s really hard. I don’t have paid sick time, paid vacation time, anything [00:14:00] like that, unless I can figure out how to pay myself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And it’s been really interesting trying to wrestle with that as far as am I still a worthwhile human being if I take some time off work. And I know maybe that sounds like a silly thought to have. I think that is reality when you are constantly surrounded by these ideas of you are worth what you produce.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What about individuals when you need the rest? What if there’s some, when does this expectation start? We don’t expect babies to produce anything initially. So why do we then have this idea that people are goods to be used almost right. And it’s, I don’t know answers, but it’s just interesting to think about as I’ve been wrestling with, am I still a worthwhile human being if I take some time off?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah. and the answer is of course: yes. Yeah, but it’s, it creeps [00:15:00] into our subconscious because it’s an, every everything we do. And there are people who are arguing that is the case that you, that people have to do something in order to receive love, like basic life needs and love.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

To me, the United States is in a really precarious position right now, because that is the foundation that we’ve built ourselves on. And how many people are unhoused, how many people are going through these really difficult challenges that when you have this mentality, it’s very easy to just be like, they’ve done it to themselves.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And so what, in what ways is that actually a disease to our society to think that we need to produce something in [00:16:00] order to have love. It, first of all, cuts us off from one another. And it’s second of all, cuts us off from the empathy that we would have for somebody who needs that empathy. The most<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> yeah. And I think the idea of rest is just radical. There is one quote from Bren\u00e9 Brown’s taking a break post. She says we set audacious goals in our organization, start global conversations about shame and vulnerability, but this might be our boldest move yet in talking about taking a break because there is that pressure to constantly do more and produce more and be the best.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I think it is radical to push back against that and say, no, I don’t need to meet this arbitrary standard of productivity to exist in this space and in this way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah. So we’ve been talking about this episode for a little while. So I’ve been thinking a [00:17:00] lot about this. Something that occurred to me like yesterday, as I was thinking about this was, I’m actually really good at rest. And I don’t hear people say that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I hear people say I’m really good at self care, but that is like an another idea of productivity. I have checked this box. I’m really good at taking care of myself, which is not the same as I’m really good at rest, but I am, I believe I’m really good at rest. And that has come through a really long process of working through this productivity model.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And at the same time, I also think of myself as having accomplished and done a lot of things. And those things came out of knowing how to ask for and seek out rest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Can you talk more about that? Cause I feel like I need to learn some from you because rest is not something [00:18:00] I’m good at, but what’s this process you went through to feel like, no, this is something that I’m good at. Yeah.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> So I got into a PhD program. So I had done my second bachelor’s and then a master’s degree. And then I went on a Fulbright, all of which was like a lot and pushing myself to, to really succeed in academia. And that I got into a PhD program. I moved to California and I was working 5:00 AM to 10:00 PM every day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I was a seminary teacher, so I’d wake up at five and go teach seminary. I was doing Greek and Latin. The majority of my day, plus doing all of my classes and readings and things for a year. And [00:19:00] it was very challenging and difficult. I also learned a lot and was excited to do like new things. I think there’s something about doing something new and different than you’re used to.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

That also helps you maintain something like that. It wasn’t even a year. I did it for nine months, the academic year, and then I went to Romania to excavate. I came home and my PhD advisor we had some challenges together. And so I was out from under his care has done from being under his care.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I As I’ve talked about before was sexually assaulted by my fianc\u00e9. I broke up with a fianc\u00e9, left an engagement. I was in love with a woman and lost my friendships because I was in love with a woman that other people said I shouldn’t be.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Ugh. So much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Like, it [00:20:00] was just like three weeks of utter hell. And I, it was a year of other utter hell, but three weeks, especially of being like, I don’t even know what to do or where to go from here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

I’ve worked so hard for everything at this moment. I’ve worked hard to be, to come back to the church, to find the husband. I worked hard to I’ve worked hard with him. Like I’ve invested my time and energy and efforts into him. I’d worked hard for this PhD program that I thought was working and suddenly wasn’t I spent all of that time learning Greek and Latin, and now what am I going to do?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And at that point, I contacted a different professor in my department and said, Hey, will you take me on to do Soviet history? I taught, contacted another professor and said, Hey, will you take me on to do history [00:21:00] of science? And I would have these dual advisors. And they were both like, yes. And so I like coasted for the next little while until I got back to California, I was in Utah for a little while I got back to California.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And the first week of classes, I couldn’t function like there’s too much to process too much trauma. I’m trying to come out and all of that it was just way too. I don’t know. I don’t even know how to describe it. Like I was at a 10 all of the time on pain scale and like unable to deal with life scale. The suicidality was every single day. And that first week after that first week, I’ve met with one of my professors and I was like, this is what’s happened. I don’t know what to do about any of it. And she took me directly to that professor that I had talked to about doing history of science. [00:22:00] And luckily that professor who was doing the history of science, was studying the history of psychology specifically and the history of hunger.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And so she had been tapped into these different networks on campus that were doing really interesting, cool community care stuff. So she had so many tools to help me figure that out that she was like any other department. I think in the U.S. would have been like, wipe my hands of this. Sorry. I don’t know<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> You\u2019re not cut out for academia bye.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yes, exactly. But that’s not what happened to me. And I feel very grateful to have the exact right people that I needed at that point. And and I was still going to church and I also had a great Bishop too. So there are multiple levels of community care that were people who were invested in looking after my wellbeing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So I had like weekly check-ins with the department, [00:23:00] they took off some of my workload. They, so they paid other TAs. They said, who would like some extra money to take on some of my work. They tried to get me in touch with the disability center, but disability centers also have some community care problems.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So that didn’t actually work out for me. The community care that I had was really my department and that system. Departmental systems are not structured to deal with this, but my department built that in order to not just help me, but I think other students as Well, And so going through that process and somebody saying you need people to take care of you and we’re willing to do that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And let’s explore what that looks like was something that never found in Mormonism within Utah. To be quite frank, I think that this is what Mormonism preaches [00:24:00] and doesn’t succeed in that we don’t know how to take care of people who are in crisis. And I was in crisis mode, peak crisis mode every day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And so for that first quarter, I had to unlearn all of that guilt and say, I’m going to let somebody who’s willing to take care of me, take care of me, but also we’re going to negotiate that. I’m going to say, here’s what I can and can’t do. And I have to be honest with myself and I have to be honest with them about what I can and can’t do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I think that’s also an issue that we have. We aren’t really able to vocalize what it is that we can and can’t do. We think that we can just do everything. And so if we’re constantly, if we’re taught, if we train ourselves to recalibrate, where am I at? What can I do? And what can’t I do, we’re better able to gauge those [00:25:00] things instead of taking on way too much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Thank you so much for sharing that story. I appreciate your vulnerability that I think will really resonate with a lot of people who have been in that space and weren’t met with that same sort of care. And that’s really hard. I, you saying, this is what Mormonism preaches, but isn’t good at, so I see that, it’s been really interesting watching some things in extended family and friends lately that, Mormons are, I don’t know if anyone’s really good with like death and dying, but there’s a system in place, when someone is diagnosed with a cancer, for example, or if someone dies you show up, you make sure that the family has food. You take the funeral arrangements off them as much as possible, but what do you [00:26:00] do when someone is in chronic, just in crisis mode in this chronic suicidality. People don’t know how to deal with that most of the time and how to show up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And it’s interesting. You talk about the idea of community care, which I think will be a new idea for some listeners. I think a lot of people have heard the idea of self care and I think a lot of this stuff, we can’t self care our way out of it. And yeah. Can you talk about the idea and the difference between self care versus community care?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah, the idea that really is exactly what you’re saying. You cannot self care yourself out of these situations and that is part of a capitalist society saying every individual is in charge of your own self care. That just, it can’t continue like that. We can’t continue to think like that. And so I have to point to this professor who introduced me to community care, but she understood from disability [00:27:00] advocates who had been advocating for community care. And the more I’ve read about community care is stemming out of Black and Indigenous communities of color, which are advocating for this same sort of thing, and have been advocating for this sort of thing for centuries, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So this is not a new concept, but I think that people who have become indoctrinated to capitalism, I think and Mormons have become that way. And white Mormons in particular, we have become indoctrinated to this idea of productivity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We do not know this. We do not know how to do this. We have to learn and humble ourselves enough to invite people who know how to do community care, which, which are disabled folks in, in communities of care around [00:28:00] disability and folks of color who have engaged with communities of care around, around their sort of marginalization.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I think that queer people do that too. I’m going to give a shout out to Mama Pool<\/a>, who I think we met through Mama Pool.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Maybe, I can’t<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> We were, yeah. Oh, maybe not,<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Yeah. Yeah, no, it was, that was the first time we saw each other in person was an event that she had put on.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah. So Mama Pool is like the community care of Provo<\/a>. If you don’t know Provo and what happens at BYU queer folks somehow always find their way to Mama Pool, who has meals for people her whole family really Jerilyn takes on this family role for queer people who don’t have their, [00:29:00] who are ostracized from their families who don’t feel like they fit in with their families who need a community.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And she is really created that for folks. I. I personally am so grateful to Jerilyn for, and her family for all of that work, because it’s endless, like the amount of time that she spends in this community is remarkable. And I hope that we can be better at appreciating that time and energy that she gives to that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But that’s exactly what we’re talking about, making food together, right? Making meals together, being part of a community that is much broader than a family. This is. We know everybody’s name and we’re going to go to a park and we all bring food and we all participate in making sure that everybody’s taken care of that medical needs are taken care of that somebody’s driving somebody somewhere that somebody who’s unsheltered find [00:30:00] shelter and Mama Pool was really taken on that role.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And we all need to like fill in for that, right? They shouldn’t land on one person. This needs to be a community effort to take care of all of those needs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Which is honestly hard to create, I’ve realized the last few weeks. When I’ve, I have a really hard time accepting help. And I think that also stems from being female raised female and raised Mormon of you’re supposed to be giving help. I have been pretty fortunate in my life to be raised in the family I was as far as all my needs and a lot of my wants being taken care of. And so we should be using what we’ve been blessed with to take care of others. And so the idea of accepting help has been really hard for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But it’s been really nice when I was sick with COVID and a friend was like, can I bring you some Gatorade? And I was like, You know what? I’m going to say yes, [00:31:00] I would normally say no, because I don’t want to be a burden. And I don’t want anyone to go out of their way to, put more stuff in their own life and I don’t need Gatorade. And then to be vulnerable and say, actually, I can’t taste anything, but a burger and a shake sound really good right now. Could you get me that, too? Or to reach out to a friend when I was having a super hard day and just, I, it was not a good idea for me to be alone and just say, can I come over and spend time with you and your wife? And then they fed me dinner and they cuddled with their pets. But that was so hard for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It was exactly what I needed to have this community care, to have people step up and take care of me, but it was so hard to one, reach out and ask and then to accept it or just accept if someone was thinking and reached out. I don’t know if you have any thoughts about how do we change that mindset of allowing ourselves to accept.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah, I do have thoughts on that [00:32:00] because first of all, it’s necessary. We all have to, we all have to recognize that we can not survive without other people and to the humble ourselves enough to say I don’t survive without any other people. So now I’m going to be actively deciding how to invite people into my life and ask them for help and see how I can give them help.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I think that there has to be boundaries in this, right? So I was, when I was going through this really difficult quarter or even year and feeling suicidal all of the time I would, when I would call people to be like, I’m in this place. I need help. I need to talk with somebody. The first thing I ask every time is are you in a space where you can make space for me to have this emotional crisis? And my friends had to be [00:33:00] okay with saying no, like right now, isn’t a good time. I know you have other people on your list. Can you move on to the next person? And that I think is really scary for them. But they trusted me that I had put all of that work in place of who I could contact and all of those things that I was mentally prepared in how to go through my suicidality.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We do not talk about that by the way within our communities, how to deal with this sort of thing. So it’s always like peak crisis instead of: how do we understand like the layers of crisis and how do we get to a person before they reach peak crisis? So all of this work goes into that before we hit peak crisis and it is community work. It’s not an individual’s work, but it is an individual who’s coming up with something like a list.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So all of those things, I think, [00:34:00] factor into what you’re talking about, but at the heart of what you’re saying is something that I found, actually just this week, I’ve been researching an article on the World Congress of Families I’ve been putting this article together that I’ve been working on for forever.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And through that, I was making the argument like something changed in Mormonism after polygamy. And so I was reading through documents about women talking about polygamy and end, even like Brigham Young, talking about polygamy and saying, look, my sister wives were always available to help me. Every time I went to their house, they were gifting me with things. There was this communal understanding that we all needed something. And we were all benefiting from the community, taking care of one another. This family [00:35:00] unit, this kinship network, we’re all taking care of one another.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And when we break away from polygamy, we break away from those relationships. We break away from this idea that we are invested in communal care and we go into every individual family is responsible for your individual family and individual families struggled too. I think that Mormonism definitely at the beginning of the 20th century shifts away from thinking about communal care and community care and how we take care of one another. And that’s, it was really difficult for me to read. It was really difficult to come across these documents and be like, wow, look how well everybody was caring for one another. And just like really interesting ways. There was one woman who her sister wife constantly helped her out, brought [00:36:00] her food, brought her milk, all of these sorts of things, but she couldn’t have a child. And so she felt like this other woman was taking care of her because she couldn’t have a child.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And the second woman said, such sister wife had it, her child and named her child after this first wife. And the first wife was just like, so emotionally invested in that child. But it’s also so emotional that somebody cared for her that way, that, that was reciprocal. But we don’t think of that. We think we just need to give without thinking of reciprocity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Oh, and that’s a hard one to overcome for sure. But as you described that, that is the idea of Zion, right? That everyone, it, Zion is community care. That’s what I was thinking as you were describing that, but we’re not there because we’re not taking care of each other there. I think [00:37:00] his efforts to take care of each other, but there’s also this, you and I were talking before this episode about the hierarchical nature of Mormonism a lot of times: I am helping you because I have more and it’s not a true community care. Can you talk more about that?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah, that’s what I think that’s my interpretation is that, especially for Latter-day Saint women to be vulnerable and ask for help is to lose a sort of status. Also in that the work falls on select few women in the ward. So relief society presidents are then shifted into young women’s presidents and the same people are constantly called on, exactly as you’re saying for funerals, constantly called on to make dinners for people [00:38:00] or be doing these certain like community care tasks, the same people are constantly like the ones who are giving.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I don’t think there’s a lot of space for everybody to take care of one another because that there is that hierarchy of I’m the relief society president. This is my job. This is my obligation. And there’s a sort of status that comes with that of. I get this higher status. Cause this is what I do. When everybody has the opportunity to be a relief society president at some point, and the relief society president isn’t immune to difficulties.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So who takes care of that person? So this idea that you like appoint somebody and that person is in charge of all these things is helpful, but not if we see it as like an upper status thing, because that just reinforces this idea that I’m gonna, I’m going to take care of people, but I’m not going to receive. [00:39:00]<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Super interesting. I really just love discussing stuff with you. It’s one reason I love that we have this podcast, cause you’re just expanding my own mind in different ways and considering things I hadn’t considered before. I love that’s really something I’m going to have to chew on. I think.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah, me too. These are new thoughts. So like we can develop them more. I do want to say though that when I was in that horrible space in California, I I reached out to my department, my colleagues, the other graduate students were so helpful, especially and working through suicidality, but the church actually was really helpful too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I think that this is an element that I don’t let go of, that there were people who took me under their wing and treated me as their family, right? My Bishop’s family shout out to Adrienne and Curtis Ballantyne who adopted [00:40:00] me into their family. And just gave me a safe space to land too that I think all queer people can understand that you need a safe space.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> So I agree. We need that safe space. How do we develop that though?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> That’s the bigger question. How do we do all of this? So I was reading an article about community care and let me just pull up this end quote. So the article is called “self care isn’t enough. We need community care to thrive.” And it says that the subtitle is “self care alone can’t heal communities.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And the idea is that when you’re, when you are. Protecting your peace. That’s something that we say I’m protecting my peace when you go into your shell and that’s, if you’re saying I’m protecting my peace from like the whole world and you retreat into your community, that’s one thing. But if you’re saying [00:41:00] I’m protecting my peace and you go into your shell and there’s nobody else there, that’s not helpful for anybody.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It’s not helping the community take care of one another and it’s not helping you because you think that you’re responsible for all of your own stuff. But at the bottom of this article as something really interesting. It does talk about self care self care versus community care. And I want to get into that, but another element to answer your question that it talks about is digital spaces. And I think that queer people actually really understand this. We understand this. We are friends because of the digital space.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We created our own digital community, right? So digital communities, this is especially important for disability communities of care, because people are able to tap into different apps and ask for help in different ways, from a larger body of community through apps. So technology and [00:42:00] social media are really actually quite central to disability communities of care.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I think that. Queer people can understand that a lot because we don’t come from families who necessarily understand us. We have to find our, a separate community somewhere and that happens oftentimes digitally. I found affirmation and affirmation was, is a great in-person community of care.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

But it was through online stuff. There was a lot of online stuff I needed to engage with first or, just meeting with other AFAB people specifically, you have to find those groups so digitally I think that sometimes we were like, oh, the digital age. And we’re losing ourselves to social media and we’re not thinking about the ways that it helps us establish communities of care.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And then talking about self care versus community care. That community care, this is in the article. Again, it says community care is harder to [00:43:00] monetize. But that doesn’t mean it can’t grow. So companies can’t make money from community care, the way that they do in the self care industrial complex represented by lifestyle brands like Gwyneth Paltrow’s goop.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So self care really pro propelled itself because it can be easily monetized where communities of care. It, that is antithetical to the way that the community care works. This is saying I don’t need these capitalist products when I need our people on the ground in a small group. So then this article also talks about like governmental roles in community care. There’s this idea that’s what socialism and communism are, right? Communism. It says communal in it. And again, I think that Mormons forget that [00:44:00] we were part of a communal care society in the 19th century.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So we’re like afraid of these terms that actually were us at the beginning that, but when we talk about the government’s role, we think we should be thinking about health systems. So health systems benefit everyone, but also, and it keeps the society itself healthy, like the body of society, healthy, not just people, individuals, but like the community healthy by taking care of health.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And we all recognize that there should be some element of this, that people should be, their health should be taken care of in some ways by the government. But we don’t think about that in terms of mental health very often. We don’t think that mental health is the role of the government. So this article says [00:45:00] a lot of health systems do not approach mental health in the same way they do infectious diseases in the broadest sense, I believe the government can use community care for some of these health issues. It changes possible. It’s true that community care may not ever take up as much of the market as self care, but that doesn’t make it any less important. So then there’s this quote that says community care is anti-capitalist what you’re doing can’t be monetized. And it’s often working outside the system. We still have these cultural myths about how we should be able to make it on our own, which is why self care is popular, but in community care, the solution isn’t marketable,<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Darn capitalism, messing everything up again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> But that’s true of our actual topic is which is rest. So the reason I say that I am an expert at rest is because I’ve actually put in a lot of work into how am I gonna think about and recognize and [00:46:00] undo that capitalist thinking of: I need to show up in this way, all of the time where I can actually give myself permission. and sometimes that’s hard. Sometimes I actively have to be like, my capitalist mind is speaking here. I have to actively be like, Nope, this is a moment for rest. When every everything society is telling me is this is not a moment for rest. And I have to believe myself when I say no, you’re okay to do this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> And we’re both leaning into that as we go into this rest for the, from the podcast for a couple. We haven’t exactly started talking about when we’ll start back up, but don’t worry. We will be back.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> We’ll be back. We’re already talking about people for the next season or whatever we’re going to call it. So we were still putting in work for the next season.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> There just won’t be a [00:47:00] weekly podcast episode.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> So okay. Let me ask you this. Okay, then Colette, what do you say, when do you think that you would do differently in order to stop that mindset that says I, I have to be doing this?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Oh, that’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately and just trying to figure out what does this look like? What does this mean? And I don’t know if I have a full answer yet. One thing I’ve been trying to do is figure out like, what is my ideal schedule? Cause I think a lot of times we don’t take a rest or a break until we’re at breaking point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And so how can I build in consistent rest and breaks and just create a life I enjoy. I remember I helped create and teach one class day, but I was working at the college. And I actually taught about the idea of self-care and [00:48:00] how self care isn’t all just bath time and chocolates and massages.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

It’s I found this quite like it’s creating a life you don’t want to run away from. And so what are the aspects of that? And talking about your physical, your emotional, your mental, your social, your environmental, all the different areas of your life, spiritual there’s probably a couple others.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And with that, how do you create a life that you enjoy? And I know not everyone has the freedom to do that because we do have to do certain things to have roofs over our heads. But I am in the position that I have a little more flexibility and I’m trying to figure out what does that look like for me?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

How can I build in rest? I’ve recently started reading again, which is something that I stopped doing [00:49:00] for about a year as I was just trying to figure out my life. And that’s really restful for me. And okay. How can I build in reading time? How can I make sure I’m exercising? Because that makes me feel good.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And I don’t know if that’s quite answering your questions. That’s something I’ve been thinking about. And I don’t have a firm answer. I don’t have the perfect schedule yet, but I’m trying to figure it out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Yeah, that’s an that’s interesting, cause this is something I’ve been thinking about as well as we’ve been thinking about this episode is time and the construct of time. So the way we’ve interpreted time for centuries, we’ve people, humans have always wanted to figure out how to break down time. You have sundials and things, right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

There’s always a way for us to be thinking about time, but never have we been able to have a global understanding of time and immediate immediacy. [00:50:00] And I can say from nine hours away from you, we’re going to meet at eight. And we know exactly when the hour changes it for both of our places like that is such like that is such a detail that we haven’t been able to do for very long.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Th this is only a couple of decades that we would be able to say this is what time it is exactly everywhere. Like we know the second, like the second it changes for me, the second changes for you on the hour. We all know what time it is everywhere. And that has put put more stringent boundaries on what we can.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Or how we think about our time. So we’re like, I’m going to spend exactly an hour doing this. I’m going to spend exactly this much time doing this. But when you’re saying like, what are the things that [00:51:00] I enjoy for me, I think about what are those things? What am I doing when those, there are those times when I completely forget about time, when I completely am able to be like, oh my gosh, what time is it?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What time is it? And realize I need to beat somewhere five minutes ago. What am I doing in those moments? And how do I make more of those moments? When do I recognize that they’re happening and not feel shame about being five minutes late to the next thing?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Because I let myself forget what time it is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Yeah, really interesting thoughts. Ah, society is fascinating. How did we get to this point where time, and I don’t know. Interesting stuff to think about.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Anyway, the article that I read earlier had said that self care, one thing about self care that is [00:52:00] undeniable. It is measurable, is time in nature. So any time that you’re spending outside in nature research has shown that actually does something for your mental health, for your body, for taking care of you spiritually, as you said.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So there is one thing that really we all need to do more of, or at least try to invest time in. And that is being in nature.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Love that’s something I’m also, thinking about. What’s my schedule? What would I want to build in? And time outside is something I’ve realized is very helpful for me, but sometimes something I forget.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Colette says, as she’s preparing to run more marathons and as that’s been running<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> yeah, I did spend some time outside this morning just going on a walk. I meant to do a run, but [00:53:00] it was a little hotter than I wanted it to be. And I am out of shape. And recovering from COVID I’m like, is this COVID tired or is this just, I didn’t get enough sleep last night tired?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> and take time to rest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Working, working on it. Is it weird to say I’m working on taking rest?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> No, I think that’s the point. I hope that’s the point that we have to work to figure out how to rest well and how do, how to do it. Instead of constantly feeling guilty about it, because rest isn’t restful if you’re feeling guilty about it, the whole.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> And that guilt will get ya. You’re not careful and aware. So I think as we wrap up, I would just encourage listeners to also be thinking about what is rest, what does rest look like in your life? How can you build in more rest?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

You are not a commodity. You are a human being that has all sorts of needs and desires. And how can you build in that rest? How can you [00:54:00] free yourself from some of that guilt you may be feeling if you do take rest, awesome.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

We do appreciate you listening in or reading our transcripts. However, you’re interacting with us. We will be back. Definitely. Be following along, we may or may not have a bonus episode or two between now and the new season. We’ll see. But don’t worry. We will be back. So thank you so much for being here<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> So as we’re also talking about community care and. How we can build community. That was the whole point of a starting Called to Queer. We wanted this to be a community space. We wanted it to, we wanted people to be able to engage and feel supported and feel seen. And we also, we are still like experimenting and thinking about how to make this more community oriented instead of maybe just podcast [00:55:00] oriented.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

So as we’re thinking through that, we also want to invite others to send us your ideas and send us your perspectives on things. We might not get back to it real soon cause we’re resting. But we also could use help. So if there’s some ways that you’re looking to volunteer or you’re thinking that you want to help, we could use some help, particularly with editing and other things.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And we’re trying to figure out how that’s gonna work for us. We’re trying to figure out how to make that worthwhile for people. And we’re welcome to ideas about that. We know that our own ideas might not be the best or, and we haven’t thought through all of the possibilities. If you can just reach out to us and help us be thinking through how to be able to sustain Called to [00:56:00] Queer through some editing help, we would appreciate it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Awesome. Thank you for that, Kate. Yes, I don’t, again, don’t think I realized how much work a podcast would be because I consume so many. A lot of work and this could be more of a community thing. So send us your ideas, or just interested in exploring this idea.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> And thanks to Colette for doing the editing, holding the editing brunt of this work so far. Yeah, let<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Colette:<\/strong> Oh, you’ve edited some episodes, so give yourself some credit.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Kate:<\/strong> Thanks for listening. We appreciate you joining us today. If you’re liking these episodes, we’d love it. If you would rate interview Called to Queer on the podcast player of your choice so the other people are more likely to find us. We’d also love it. If you would share a podcast with a friend who could benefit from hearing these stories, if you want to contact us, you can reach us at hello@calledtoqueer.com and you can also follow us on Facebook and [00:57:00] Instagram @CalledToQueer. See you next time.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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